oral histories

Longform quotes: Debra Schuckar

Debra Schuckar (b. 1966)
Currently practicing engineering patternmaker, singer, textiles maker and artist, Melbourne.
Apprenticed in engineering patternmaking at the State Electricity Commission of Victoria, Richmond, early 1980s.

 

You become a patternmaker once you get your ticket. So probably after my four years, and you come out of your time and you become one of the time, like you are a patternmaker. … I won a couple of awards along the way, made me feel that I am in the right direction. … I remember those times, you just grab your drawing, you know exactly what you’re doing, and you go from there. 

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Debra Schuckar as an apprentice, SEC Victoria, 1980s, courtesy of Debra Schuckar

I understand we have computers but computers are just a tool. If the person behind the computer doesn’t know what they’re putting in, because they don’t have a practical feel for what they’re doing, it’s going to waste a lot of time. Trades are there for a reason but I know trades have sort of demised. I’m hoping that will open some sort of a – there will be a window open and they’ll start training again. I mean, where are you going to get those skills from, you know? I know machines are taking over but you’ve still gotta understand the machine to do it, and is that machine always going to be able to do it? I don’t know. Machines need to be fixed.

***

I was the first [woman patternmaker] in Victoria. So that was kind of scary I suppose at the time because I felt a lot of pressure to succeed. I didn’t want to fail anybody because I was the first. I felt like I was, you know, making a wave in the change for women’s vocations, If I didn’t fail or I become this patternmaker, then anybody could do it. I mean, it’s a funny way of thinking, but I just wanted to make sure that the doors would be open. … At the time I did feel a responsibility to be successful so that other women could follow in their own way. But I look back and think well, it’s not a failure if you don’t do well anyway, it’s just that first thing you try out. But that’s how I felt at the time. … No, I didn’t fail anybody. … It’s a lot of pressure.

 

Debra Schuckar’s interview is held with the National Library of Australia

 

 

oral histories

Longform quotations: Scott Murrells

Scott Murrells (b. 1964)
Former engineering patternmaker, automotive clay modeller, woodworker, artist, hardware expert
Apprenticed in engineering patternmaking at John Williams Patterns, Melbourne, c. 1981-85.

 

I guess, in a way, patternmakers solve problems. There’s a design, that comes along, and it gets turned into a drawing … and you solve that problem, you turn it into the three dimensional object that they want. 

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Scott Murrells, 2017, photograph by Jesse Adams Stein

 

When I first started patternmaker, I remember a tradesman saying,
‘Why’d you pick this trade? It’s not gonna be around in the next few years.’
They knew it was coming. … the teachers knew it was coming to an end. I think it’s just normal human nature just to hang on until you’re pushed over the edge. … It was all starting to be mechanised, I guess, or computerised.

The majority of the work that I did when I started was metal casting patterns. And then there was a slow down in metal casting components for machinery, and plastics was taking over. I guess the automotive industry is the easiest way to illustrate it. You go back to the early cars and a lot of it was stamp metal and cast metal. Then it became very plastic, so the plastic side of patternmaking took off, it had a peak there for a short time … and then CNCs came in. That’s how I see what happened to patternmaking. It was labour intensive, long lead times to produce a pattern. … I never sort of thought about it much back then. But I think they were always looking for quicker turnaround. So once computers became, you know, CAD systems got off the ground, they saw an opportunity to do it digitally.

I wasn’t really frightened of [technological change], but you thought well, the work became less and less fun. Because you’d get these CNC-cut things, and all you were doing was, you know, making sharp corners round and the round corners sharp, sort of thing. So it was boring. I guess that’s the reason I didn’t stay in patternmaking – because it became boring. You know, there was no real, there was no problem solving, you didn’t have to think. That was all taken off you. … It basically means that you no longer become the problem solver or the creator of the pattern. It’s done for you. You then became you become the finish[er] of the pattern. … All that creativity comes away from it. So there’s no fun, there’s no fun in it any more.

 

You can listen to Scott Murrells’ interview on the National Library of Australia’s digital collection item here.